DreamHack Masters Winter Groups Announced

With my bitching out of the way, pretty nice group, it should be a fun watch.

On September 28 2021 05:24 starvingbox1 wrote:
Same format? They didn’t make any changes at all based on the feedback?

This is ESL we’re talking about…

On September 28 2021 09:55 ShowTheLights wrote:
I feel like… there are too many players that qualify for this

I think it is nice, that some new players have a chance to play against the very best in Europe.

On September 28 2021 05:24 starvingbox1 wrote:
Same format? They didn’t make any changes at all based on the feedback?

Clearly not, though I would definitely prefer that they do 2 GSL-style rounds. A Ro32 – 8 groups of 4 players. And then do a group nomination into Ro16 with 4 groups of 4 players. This way, there are more chances for those who are lower to sneak through to the higher rounds. And they should change it to single elimination in the playoffs…

changing the format doesn’t make ESL more money, thats what its all about

I’d definitely dig that or something for Europe, I don’t mind double elim as much, at least there’s a deficit formed and an underdog comeback narrative.

But the group stage just drags and drags with too few matches with anything that impactful on the line.

On September 29 2021 13:21 ImmortalGhost wrote:
I think gsl style for a ro32 is actually kind of bad, especially when there’s such a big skill difference between players. If you go back to the gsl ro32 and ro24 last year, those groups were way too predictable and boring. I actually prefer the round robin format for esl. However, I would prefer the groups to be played one by one, rather than all at once.

I think it’s bad only because there’s no “mid” tier players in GSL now. It’s either pro or semi-pro. But it’s different in EU. There’s a clear top, mid, and lower tier players. Having Ro32 GSL-style groups allow for some of the mid-tier players to possibly “snipe” or prepare builds against the top tier players in their groups and advance further. You can do that in a Bo3 against them. Having group nominations also allow for more strategies in choosing players for groups, which then again allows for some mid-tier players in possibly advancing further.

In this current format, there’s simply no way for any upsets to happen. Even if it did, it doesn’t matter too much in the end. The end-result will always be similar, and Lambo did speak about this in a recent Pylon Show that it can be demotivating because he knows he’ll never be able to win. But in a GSL style format allows for more opportunities for lower tier players to progress further.

On the other side, the current format is good for players who want to plan out their year, you can generaly have a fairly good idea of what kind of results you’ll have “at worst” in the ESL circuit and not have to much fear of losing your paycheck because you slip up on a current day.

Plus it give an opportunity for more players to have some kind of exposure.

GSL is a bit different since most actual progammer have actually made reasonably good money in the last few years.

On September 29 2021 13:21 ImmortalGhost wrote:
I think gsl style for a ro32 is actually kind of bad, especially when there’s such a big skill difference between players. If you go back to the gsl ro32 and ro24 last year, those groups were way too predictable and boring. I actually prefer the round robin format for esl. However, I would prefer the groups to be played one by one, rather than all at once.

I think there are issues with that format too but at least you get into simple issues of elimination or progression pretty quickly, and it’s a little more volatile.

100% on the bolded. You go an entire day’s watching and the round robin is starting to open up so matches become more crucial, do-or-die affairs and then play stops and you have to wade through another long initial slag from another group when not much is on the line either.

I don’t really get why they do it, I cant really think of an advantage to that schedule from a user interest perspective.

Oh, I agree with this. It’s just pros and cons to each format.

The “bad scheduling” to me seems like a pretty big deal. I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion of this, and how to make sure it doesn’t happen in the future. The Korea play-ins have produced some amazing matches, but more importantly it seems deeply unfair that Parting was forced to choose between taking a day off for a Korean national holiday and playing in an important qualifying match.

Not sure where you’ve been, there were plenty of discussions regarding the scheduling for the Koreans over the past year. Nothing has changed…